Re: Human Factors in ETOPS

Keith McDonald (kmac_at_interworldnet.net)
Fri, 15 May 1998 16:09:01 -0700


In a recent article, a pilot wrote about enduring Flight Safety or
the other program and was amazed at the engine out performance of
the one (stranger) with whom he was paired in the sim. His response,
"Nose left, feather left!"

-----Original Message-----
From: Joan Kuenzi <Joan.Kuenzi_at_nwa.com>
To: 'crm-devel_at_db.erau.edu' <crm-devel_at_db.erau.edu>
Date: Thursday, May 14, 1998 8:47 AM
Subject: RE: Human Factors in ETOPS

The ASRS web site will give you information as to how to submit a query. I
received a great deal of info from my request several months ago, but I had
to send a letter of request. Perhaps that can all be taken care of
electronically now.

-----Original Message-----
From: Donald Talleur [SMTP:dtalleur_at_uiuc.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 1998 4:10 PM
To: crm-devel_at_db.erau.edu
Subject: Re: Human Factors in ETOPS

Stewart,
Thank you for the below! While I understand the piston aircraft
issues, the current commercial aircraft issues are not so clear to me. I
wonder if NASA's ASRS database has any useful compiled info on this ETOPs
dual engine-out scenario?

Don

At 04:07 PM 5/13/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>There have been several accidents where the wrong engine was secured. Some
>because of aircrew misidentification, and some because of crossed wiring of
>the engine monitoring system indicating the wrong or opposite engine. The
>are even a couple of cases of fuel transfer mismanagement where three of
>four engines were lost. Off the top of my head I recall an accident in UK
>of the wrong engine being secured, and an ETOPS dual engine flameout from
>Southern California (successful relight), and lots of light twin piston
>engine fuel starvation and wrong engine shutdowns. Identify, verify,
>feather is a very time critical process for light twins shortly after
>takeoff; but, with most of the commercial fleet now using turbines there is
>less of a time critical need to secure an engine. Anyone doing a
>scientific analysis must watch the data and not mix fleet configurations or
>go back too far. Because these types of accidents are very rare, it would
>sure help to have more complete incident reporting.
>
>Regards
>
>Stewart
>
> AM 5/13/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>I would be interested to know what the perceived risk is of a dual engine
>>shutdown (one emergency and the other engine shut down by aaccident) is
>>regards to the ETOPS discussion. I have a hard time believing this is
likely
>>to happen but, being an Instructor, I'm smart enough to realize that if
you
>>can think of something that might go wrong, it either has at some point or
>>will in the future.
>>
>>Don
>>
>>--
>>Donald Anders Talleur email: dtalleur_at_uiuc.edu
>>Assistant Aviation Education Specialist/
>> Assistant Chief Flight Instructor
>>Institute of Aviation- Willard Airport
>>Aviation Research Laboratory- 244-8687
>>Pilot Training- 244-8606
>>
>>Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up
>>their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn
>>up at all! (Sam Ewing)
>>
>>
>
>