I should have said that there are SPECIAL CRM issues when training crews to function with experienced former Captains in the role of Flight Engineers. This warrants emphasis on team building in this environment.
With the aid of ALPA Professional Standards and company Flight Standards we are successful in maintaining a first rate team.
Bill
----------
From: William M. Ermolovich[SMTP:ermo_at_adnc.com]
Sent: Friday, July 18, 1997 10:52 AM
To: 'crm-devel_at_db.erau.edu'
Subject: RE: 60 years
Hugo,
I have been actively involved in training age 60 down bidding Captains who wish to remain at my company as Flight Engineers. This group is as diverse in abilities as the pilot group as a whole. Those who functioned as Flight Engineers in the past tended to perform at a higher level from the onset. They tended to have a better feel for the dynamics of cockpit and cabin crew coordination. The crew dynamics of former Captains functioning as Flight Engineers requires the check airman to cover CRM issues during training flights. Essentially, the check airman should discuss the F/E's role in cockpit and cabin relations.
I was involved in a similar situation in my military days when I trained experienced Naval Flight Officers (non-pilots) to become pilots. Once again the crew dynamics required more attention to CRM issues, even though we did not call it CRM in those days.
When experienced crew members change seats there are definite Human Factors issues which should be discussed while in training.
Warm regards,
Bill Ermolovich
----------
From: Strauch Barry[SMTP:STRAUCB_at_NTSB.GOV]
Sent: Friday, July 18, 1997 7:00 AM
To: 'crm-devel_at_db.erau.edu'
Subject: RE: 60 years
Hugo:
There is not much evidence on age 60 and safety in air transport
operations in the US because of the age 60 rules. There are anecdotal
reports, and nothing more to my knowledge, of CRM difficulties within
three person cockpits where the flight engineer retired as a 60-year old
captain and elected to remain in the cockpit in the FE position.
Also, there are two air transport accidents that occurred outside the US
involving over 60 captains, one involved a Suriname Airways DC-8 that
crashed about 10 years ago on approach to Paramaribo. The captain, age
67, was from a pilot recruiting company, and his age was not verified by
the airline. The second involved a Gamchrest Convair 640 that crashed
in Senegal in 1991. The captain was age 65. In both instances the
captains were US citizens. The evidence in both pointed to several
mistakes that the pilots made, but the effects of fatigue, training,
poor CRM etc. may have contributed.
Barry Strauch
NTSB
>----------
>From: Hugo Oscar Leimann Patt[SMTP:hleimann_at_houseware.com.ar]
>Sent: Friday, July 18, 1997 8:03 AM
>To: crm-devel_at_db.erau.edu
>Subject: 60 years
>
>Sorry Folks,
>The previous msj on 60 year experience in other countries for our own
>problematic down here, is founded in a serious CRM problem we encounter with
>the inclution of this veteran excellent pilots in crews with crewmembers
>that dosn't accept them for being occupying a place that copilots believe
>they have no right to.
>Worst than that, we launched a Programme fro evaluate technical and
>psychophysically these pilots, that works just inside our frontiers, and...
>one of them, flying a little jet cargo plane hit a mountain in the approach
>(the PF was a young man, but the over 60 pilot was the CA).
>This is a real enlarged CRM problem for as, because contextual new variables
>are introduced in the cockpit and all the flight opperation.
>This pilots, who had flown 30 years and were lord in the skies, suddenly
>become pariahs outcasted by some of their colleagues, and have to bare some
>misconducts of ground crew (in the case of cargo and post flights).
>Any experience or ideas to help us ?
>Thanks a million.
>Greeting from BA, the capital city of tango, footbal and corruption.
>Hugo
>
>