RE: re:Re: Go around

Bauer, Kenneth, CAPT, XOOT (bauerk_at_af.pentagon.mil)
Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:57:00 -0500

I rarely chime in, but I want to relate a story along these
lines (Good). Years ago when I upgraded to an A/C (Captain) I knew I
had to get the crew (2 Pilots a Nav and a Boom) on my aircraft involved.
To do this I wanted them to know that they had an input. "Any
crewmember" could call a go-around. To enforce this idea I said that we
had some transition to do today. With the minimums for doing this
covered I said I want one of you to send me around. I don't want to
know before hand. I told them to decide on "who" while I went to file
some paper work. We flew, and out of the blue one of the crew sent me
around out of a perfect approach. I didn't hesitate in going around and
the Co-pilot backed me up. I asked what the reason was and they said
"That was the unplanned one". We did this for each position to have a
chance to call "Go Around" on other flights. Bottom line is that it
worked and opened discussion on some good crew questions. The questions
focused around items not covered in any of the regulations, like what is
expected from each position. When we were done talking, each of us knew
what our part was in an emergency/unusual situation.
I had this discussion with my first crew (Hard Crews back then)
and I did it (Abbreviated) for those that I flew with last. The crews
seemed to like working from known expectations rather than assumptions
and fear.

Ken
----------
From: Major Tony T. Kern, 472-4727
To: crm-devel_at_db.erau.edu
Subject: re:Re: Go around
Date: Thursday, January 15, 1998 10:23AM

Friends,
One last shot on the go-around issue. Some time ago, I
participated
in an investigation of a landing accident where the copilot claimed he
"had not done an unplanned go-around" in over 18 months (his entire
career to that point), but that "he had seen lots worse approaches
salvaged." So he was ironically, more comfortable with an idle power,
1900 ft/min sink rate at less than 100 AGL, than he was in suggesting a
go-around to the aircraft commander, who was just having a bad day.
This gave us great cause to look at the frequency of our "unplanned
go-around training" requirements. Guess what we found? Do others
require this type of training? If not, should we?

Beating a dying horse,

Tony Kern

----------------------[Reply - Original Message]----------------------

Sent by:Dan Patterson <dpatterson001_at_sprintmail.com>

I'd like to comment on Mark Pitt's posting from Wed, 14 Jan 1998.

Your points are true enough; it will be a rare occasion when all avenues
of assertion and procedures are ineffective in facilitating a go around.
The problem is the one-thousandth time when it is not successful. I am
constantly asked by commuter and regional pilots how to respond to the
"mutiny" scenario when the Captain is deviating from SOP and
convinced
everything is in hand. My understanding is the larger carriers are also
presenting these situations to pilot applicants to determine their
willingness to be assertive (aggressive?) on the flight deck.

A few years ago didn't we see a flight crew struggle over the controls
when the FO wanted to err on the safe side and tried to force a go
around?

How do I help these young pilots (and myself) address the "thousandth
time" when everything isn't going just right? And more to the point
what meaning is attached to the responses these scenarieos in an
interview? Is there a right and wrong answer?

Dan

===========================================================
==========