Hi again Mark,
Interesting discussion?? I've just returned to the computer after hours
away, trying to recover from the F/O selecting the gear handle up, may I
now assume at minimums on a stabilized approach or after COMMANDING the
CAPT to go-around??
Yes, I know Mark, you are just trying to generate positive discussion to
perhaps address "command authority" or "decision making", whatever??
Well, let me once again take this opportunity to thank you and the other
leaders on our forum for sharing their expertise and for giving me an
opportunity to continue to learn. I love to learn!
> In the ideal world pilots follow the company and manufacturer's standard
> operating procedures and callouts during instrument approach procedures
> and the crew work together to achieve a safe landing or a safe GO
> AROUND.
>
> As pilots, we fit into a normal distribution curve in terms of behaviour
> and personality. This is usually heavily screened during recruitment.
> However, there is always a margin of error reflected in the statistical
> standard deviations and we see the occassional aggressive and/or passive
> personality appear.
Again, pertaining to MD-11 operations at DL, we are rather lucky, for the
CAPT would have at least 27+ years with the company and the F/O at least
perhaps 12+ years. Most all pilots & F/A know each other at a small MD-11
base such as PDX, LAX, CVG, etc. Even it if was your first trip together
as a crew, you would be together 2 hours before takeoff and perhaps 10+
hours before approach. You brief and work together as a crew. You are all
comfortable with FAR's, standard callouts and company policy. We are all
CAT IIIB qualified and do not have to see to land on a CAT III approach.
Target fixation on the CAPT's part? Possible of course, but not a valid
concern in our operation. Situational awareness breakdown? Possible again
of course, but in our operation after a 10 hour flight and after a
stabilized approach? Aggressive personality at this stage in the game
after a superb 27+ year career, after a stabilized approach? F/O
commanding a go-around at 100' AFE, then later taking over?? Fighting for
the aircraft at what, 35' AFE? Yes, I know, I apologize! I am sure your
intentions are honorable indeed! I just do not want to have F/O's
thinking about raising the gear at 100' with a sink rate of 700 FPM, etc!
> The situation I described would occur after the FO has called "MINIMUM"
> and there is no incapacitation.
>
> The FO is faced with a more difficult task than a captain in
> uncomfortable or dangerous situations. Having the knowledge and
> experience to realise what is wrong and how to correct the situation may
> have to be precipitated as commanding a go around or taking control
> after all other avenues have been explored.
Gee Mark, after minimums on a stabilized approach, we are on the ground
in literally a few seconds....the above is a bunch of thoughts,
considerations, analyzing and actions in just a few seconds, AND that is
if no intervention on the CAPT's part after the F/O took the airplane
away! I really have major heartburn over all this!!
> Some pilots will never experience a difficult situation like the FO
> commanding a go around when a captain descends below a minimum
Gee, how many F/O's have done so?
We agreed there is no incapacitation. How many CAPT's are we to have on
an airplane?? There can only be *ONE* CAPT on an airplane!!
> If this does happen there will be no time to reflect on the pro's and con's of
> doing what is thought to be essential to the safety of the flight.
Since we cannot stop the world, sit, think, analyze, discuss, take
control, etc., is this the time for the F/O to fight for control and
relieve the CAPT of his duties??
Mark, if I am out of line, I apologise; I do not mean to blow your
scenario. I really have a problem with this one!
Regards-
Lonny